Friday, 27 June 2008

Debate with Anthony Barnett over Greens vs. Davis

  The excellent Anthony Barnett, founder of OUR KINGDOM, has replied [ http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/anthony-barnett/2008/06/27/are-the-greens-just-silly-sods#comment-463100 ], in a slightly ungracious manner in my view, to my most recent post on Our Kingdom about the Davis byelection [http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/rupert-read/2008/06/26/the-real-civil-libertarian-candidate-stands-up ].
My earlier post on Our Kingdom about this [see below] accentuated the positive [about what Davis had done]. This more recent post of mine to which Barnett has now replied [very negatively] accentuates the negative. Is that so wrong? Is it so unfair or unhelpful, to point out how bloody right-wing and unfriendly to freedom this man Davis is, in so many ways?
Let me respond here more positively however to the helpful way in which Barnett brings his reply to me to a close. Barnett suggests the line that the Greens 'OUGHT' in his view to have taken, on this byelection [my reply to these points of Barnett's is in CAPS, for ease of telling us apart]:
 *  We welcome David Davis standing on a platform of civil liberties and insisting that these difficult matters in a age of terrorist attacks can be debated with voters, who are not just populist fodder.
AGREED.
    * We especially welcome his widening the argument of civil liberties to the whole issue of the database state.
AGREED.
    * We are running a candidate in order to support this move and encourage everyone to go to the polls on this great matter.
NO - WE ARE RUNNING A CANDIDATE TO GET AS MANY VOTES AS WE CAN, FOR A STANCE THAT IS QUITE DISTINCT FROM HIS. MUCH MORE SERIOUS ABOUT FREEDOM IN GENERAL AND ABOUT CIVIL LIBERTIES IN PARTICULAR.
    * We feel there will be voters who want to go further than Davis or feel that his Tory policies prevent them from supporting him.
INDEED SO.
    * We therefore offer our record on freedom and civil liberties as an alternative and more thorough platform.
I SUPPOSE YOU COULD PUT IT LIKE THAT.
Together our votes will add up to a great rebuke to the Labour government and its erosion of civil liberties.
DITTO; AND our VOTES WILL ALSO CLEARLY SIGNAL THE DESIRE OF SOME BRITONS TO GO MUCH FARTHER THAN THE PALE SHADOW OF LIBERTY ACTUALLY OFFERED BY DAVIS...

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1. 2. 3. Rupert's Read: Debate with Anthony Barnett over Greens vs. Davis 4. 12. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. 23. 24.

25. 26. Debate with Anthony Barnett over Greens vs. Davis 27. 28.

29.
  The excellent Anthony Barnett, founder of OUR KINGDOM, has replied [ http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/anthony-barnett/2008/06/27/are-the-greens-just-silly-sods#comment-463100 ], in a slightly ungracious manner in my view, to my most recent post on Our Kingdom about the Davis byelection [http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom-theme/rupert-read/2008/06/26/the-real-civil-libertarian-candidate-stands-up ].
My earlier post on Our Kingdom about this [see below] accentuated the positive [about what Davis had done]. This more recent post of mine to which Barnett has now replied [very negatively] accentuates the negative. Is that so wrong? Is it so unfair or unhelpful, to point out how bloody right-wing and unfriendly to freedom this man Davis is, in so many ways?
Let me respond here more positively however to the helpful way in which Barnett brings his reply to me to a close. Barnett suggests the line that the Greens 'OUGHT' in his view to have taken, on this byelection [my reply to these points of Barnett's is in CAPS, for ease of telling us apart]:
 *  We welcome David Davis standing on a platform of civil liberties and insisting that these difficult matters in a age of terrorist attacks can be debated with voters, who are not just populist fodder.
AGREED.
    * We especially welcome his widening the argument of civil liberties to the whole issue of the database state.
AGREED.
    * We are running a candidate in order to support this move and encourage everyone to go to the polls on this great matter.
NO - WE ARE RUNNING A CANDIDATE TO GET AS MANY VOTES AS WE CAN, FOR A STANCE THAT IS QUITE DISTINCT FROM HIS. MUCH MORE SERIOUS ABOUT FREEDOM IN GENERAL AND ABOUT CIVIL LIBERTIES IN PARTICULAR.
    * We feel there will be voters who want to go further than Davis or feel that his Tory policies prevent them from supporting him.
INDEED SO.
    * We therefore offer our record on freedom and civil liberties as an alternative and more thorough platform.
I SUPPOSE YOU COULD PUT IT LIKE THAT.
Together our votes will add up to a great rebuke to the Labour government and its erosion of civil liberties.
DITTO; AND our VOTES WILL ALSO CLEARLY SIGNAL THE DESIRE OF SOME BRITONS TO GO MUCH FARTHER THAN THE PALE SHADOW OF LIBERTY ACTUALLY OFFERED BY DAVIS...
30. 31. 32.